Celebrity Interviewer?

Which interviewer can you name who manages to make the interview about the interviewee rather than about the interviewer? Very few names come to mind! This is particularly true when men are interviewing women. Which men are able to interview women as equals, with respect and willingness to learn, without patronising or flirting, even mildly? And perhaps the biggest test of all, can a man conduct an interview about misogyny and sexism without moving the focus from the woman to himself? In a recent episode of his podcast, Full Disclosure, an opinionated journalist made it almost possible for me to answer ‘yes’ to that question.

Talk show-host James O’Brien introduces each podcast episode by saying it gives him the opportunity ‘to spend more time with interesting people ....’. In this episode, his choice was someone whose lifework has concentrated on fascinating but chilling discoveries. It was a challenge to listen whatever your gender.

The interviewee was the founder of the Everyday Sexism Project which exists, its website says, ‘to promote the idea that sexism does exist, it is faced by women everyday and it is a valid problem to discuss’. Laura Bates – a 21st century feminist pioneer has recently published a new book, The New Age of Sexism. The interview began describing the online misogyny and sexism deeply engrained in social media, which Bates has been challenging for many years and receiving endless threats as a result.

In research for her new book, Bates has uncovered the profound threat to society as sexism and racism and negative attitudes to minorities of all kinds are being deeply engrained in the algorithms of AI. Sexist attitudes, she warned, are beginning to influence everything from CV-sorting algorithms to deepfake pornography.  

O’Brien revealed the skills of the best interviewers. He gave Bates the space to give an account of herself, her experience her ideas and views. Obviously he had researched the subject beforehand to give the interview focus and clarity. Asking the questions which curious listeners may wish to ask takes imagination and understanding and knowledge of context. All that is – or should be - everyday journalistic professionalism.

But what was significant to me in this interview was its particular focus on a group of people whom, by birth, O’Brien belongs to: men! What particularly impressed me was his ability to concentrate on Bates’ research on male behaviour rather than on his own, one could say more privileged, experience of understanding male behaviour. After all he could assume, ‘I know about this – I’m a man! ‘ This was the ultimate invitation and excuse to ‘man ‘splain’!

O’Brien exhibited that most difficult of skills in interviewing - the ability to hold the space without occupying it. In so many amateur interviews (and I have done it myself!) there’s a temptation to become the interviewee not the interviewer. To take control in some way by moving one’s own experience, one’s own views, one’s own ideas into the spotlight. But O’Brien made the interview into a rare conversation where the goal of the interviewer was not to perform but to facilitate the uncovering of the truth of Bates’ perspective on human behaviour, however unpalatable it might seem.

James O’Brien is the last person to claim he’s a paragon of humility! After all, he’s written a best-selling book called, ‘ How to be Right...in a world Gone Wrong’! But on this occasion he exhibited a skill – useful not only in interviews but in difficult conversations of all kinds. The skill of asking informed questions, and then stepping back, prepared and curious to see the world through different eyes.

I highly recommend the interview both for its vital subject matter and for being a model for difficult conversations between women and men!